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Crit 'Two for Joy' (my Tokyopop RSOM comic)

  • Mar. 10th, 2008 at 1:28 PM
RCT Panda Attack


I'd really appreciate some solid critique of my Rising Stars of Manga piece.

I'm looking to get started with the production of a new comic soon, so I thought it would be worthwhile to take a final look at my Rising Stars of Manga piece to figure out what I need to learn moving forward. Whilst there is plenty that I'm happy about with this story, I don't want to rest on my laurels and overlook the flaws in this piece. It's important to recognise flaws and weaknesses so that I can overcome them with my comics in the future.

See the comic pages here:
http://www.sweatdrop.com/dock/twoforjoy/

Some criticism that I've already received:
Page 11 - top right panel, punch is rendered poorly

Page 09
- bottom panel, kneeing in face is poor.
Random: "very dodgy anatomy during the fight scene"

It's clear that most of the criticism so far has focused on the fight scene, which has been helpful for me to consider for future projects so that I can either taking more time, care or choosing to omit combat such as this altogether.

Were there any aspects of the art that you found to be weak or jarring? I'm also interested to know whether the story made sense to you. Was the abstraction straight-forward, and did the dialogue 'work' in general? Were there any parts of it you felt were strong, or especially liked?

Any input is useful for me, and I promise I won't be upset. I'm focusing on my next comic now, so any feedback should help me to make my next project even better, especially as I'm not bound to deadlines or page count.

This isn't any sort of fishing for compliments, I just want useful feedback so that I can improve my comics in the future.

Tags:

Comments

[info]nickolatos wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 04:14 pm (UTC)
To start, the art is great... When I got my first look, my first impression was, "Fresh, clean - looks like it belongs with the Tokyopop crowd." To me, first impressions really reveal the core the feeling you give for readers, regardless of little mistakes.

You have a talent for birds, trees, and snow. I like how you use your shades for a soft feel. The guy's girlfriend looked like a good impression of a real person.

The story... Hmm... How can I put this... It seems like you're squeezing an epic into a short story. I thought your characterization of the main man was good, and the conversation he had with his friend was natural and entertaining. But then the story got farther down the line, and he freaks out over the magpies. I can understand the symbol it represents, and the inner angst, but I thought it was kind of an abrupt and strange jump. Do 21st century people really freak out so easily over something like that? Is his ego really so fragile?

I understand that you're trying to get to this place of drama, to have something 'stir' him to face his inner demons... But that's the problem with having such a big story in only a couple of pages.

The conversation with his 'past-self' was good, however... Though I wonder why he can't just play some music on the side if he's so twisted up about it.

I thought the resolution to the problem of 'finding himself' was strange... By apologizing to his girlfriend? People figure out who they are by being themselves, and making their own choices... This guy comes off as paranoid, schizophrenic and co-dependent.

These are the bare-bone thoughts I had reading this... If I went too far, I'm sorry.
[info]dock wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 06:28 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the feedback, it's really useful stuff and a lot of this I haven't heard before.

I won't argue the perception of the story, if this is how it came across to you then that's the story I put on paper. I think I missed the mark with the clarity of some of his actions, and as you say they must come across as him being twitchy and overdramatic. The pacing is probably mostly to blame here, so it's something I should be conscious of in the future. I don't intend to do page-count limited pieces again though so hopefully it can be something I watch out for.

Thanks again, I really appreciate the input.

Edited at 2008-03-10 06:29 pm (UTC)
[info]fuuringo wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 05:06 pm (UTC)
Heyo! Left my in-depth crit on SD. Uhmm I'm always a bit uncomfortable critting people who's work I really like so... don't hit me!! XP
[info]dock wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 06:23 pm (UTC)
Why would I hit you? What you said was exactly what I was after! :) I'm massively grateful for the feedback, and it's definitely stuff that I can work with to try to improve my comics from now on. It's not like people don't think or say these things anyway, so I might as well get a clearer picture for where my work stands. I know it's not really comfortable for people to crit work directly, but I'm hoping that people can let go within this context. Thanks Nanali! ^_~
[info]erinfinnegan wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 06:59 pm (UTC)


I don't want to rip you a new one here, but you asked for a crit, so I'm not going to hold back!

Overall, I think your art is really strong - there are some weak points, but I bet since you've gotten stronger since you drew this! Most of my problems are story and dialog problems.

Here are some notes;

  • The dialog on page one is very repetitive. Half the lines could be cut.

  • Really lovely forest background! I mean, the trees are great, the birds are nicely drawn.

  • Heavy-handed visual metaphors... You're really beating us over the head with this whole bird comparison. The metaphor could've been handled in fewer pages, in fewer panels.

  • Middle top panel on page 13 - his face looks really out-of-proportion. I don't think his eyes are big enough on the whole, and sometimes the eye placement seems a little off for the protagonist.

  • The dude's arms seem too short on the bottom of page 14.

  • In the upper right of page 19 her tears seem fake - I'm still convinced April is a villain.

  • On page 19 the band's proportions seem a little weird. Specifically the dude playing the guitar looks a little weird. I'm not sure the perspective is right with the audience...


Most of my notes are story notes:

The girlfriend is a total stereotype. We don't really get to know anything about her. The protagonist asks "When did this happen?" and I think that's more important to the story than whether or not he stays with his girlfriend. When DID he dye his hair blonde and turn into a wussy pushover?

In my experience glam punk rockers are not very likely to let a girl decided 100% of their wardrobe... it's more like, in Ghost World a new girlfriend means new jeans for the record collector character. But he's a huge nerd with zero fashion sense... he kind of does need the help.

I had to make some wardrobe changes to my current boyfriend, but he requested help, and he admits he knows nothing at all about fashion.

I'm not convinced the protagonist of your story loves April. He just seems brainwashed by her. How did they meet? Did he suffer some tragic loss that turned him into a bishie loser? I thought the story would end with him totally ditching her since she's such a jerk.

She changes his plans several times in the story, but just once would have been effective. It is a short story, after all. She only has to compliment his clothing once - it's repetitive to have the friend mention it on page one and then she takes him shopping later. We already knew that about April.

It might be a more effective story if his younger self was a teenager... and his older self was considerably older. As it is, they both look about the same age. As someone approaching 30 I've had a lot of conversations with friends about what we would say in a conversation with our teenage selves. I think that's a universal sort of theme. The timeframe in your story is kind of muddled.

I think for your next work it'd be a good idea to really pound out the story and dialog in the thumbnail phase. The art just needs some adjustments and you're good to go!
[info]dock wrote:
Mar. 10th, 2008 08:01 pm (UTC)
Ah brilliant, thanks for all of this Erin. There's not really a huge amount I can say, as I'm not a fan of retrospectively 'arguing' the case for a story, but it sounds like you picked up on a lot of things and really took your time to be thorough. I really appreciate you sharing your feelings and I'll certainly look to improve things for my stories in the future.
[info]helldray wrote:
Mar. 12th, 2008 01:30 am (UTC)
Something that bothered me right at the start was the way they were sitting on the bench, it looked like it was too big for them, or they were tiny people. Maybe park benches in the UK are taller.

I also felt like the backgrounds were a little overworked in places, not a bad thing entirely, but they are so well done they almost seem out of place with the characters, as if maybe they'd come out of some kind of pre-made background clipart book. I've seen more than one Japanese manga that had similar qualities but usually (the ones I like anyway) tone down the backgrounds a bit to better match the character styles. They still look realistic (as if they worked right off a photo in some cases) but the contrast between backgrounds isn't as jarring.

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